Thanks everyone for the responses. I agree there is really no release which makes club control accurate. I am all in with the short game but still on the fence with the full swing. If I was where I was 20 years ago with my swing I would be all in with my full swing. The reason I am holding back is, as I brought up in my first post I still believe there are two options hit or swing. To learn to swing you have to learn how not to hit which is very difficult. You have to develop feel for lag and drag with the club and upper body. It is completely opposite than a hit swing. It took me a very long time but I now have this awareness with my swing. Maybe Les can understand where I am coming from, because it is difficult to find but when you do you can create effortlessly powerful. In my analogy with the ball and string you can move it much faster with small wrist movements and use the physics of angular momentum. There is nothing I could add with my body to move it faster. I think with a swing there is a release like throwing a baseball or skipping a stone so there is angular momentum where a hit the arms are on the body like striking something with a sword. I am not saying that I don’t believe a hit or Tathata swing works. I know it does. Homer Kelly from the golfing machine advocates hitting over swinging because finding the feeling of lag and drag is so difficult. It has taken me years and thousands of swings to find it which makes it very difficult to abandon it. Still keeping an open mind and will finish the 60 day program. I might have to schedule a lesson with the Tathata staff before I decided which path to take.
Jim
Scottsdale, AZ

Thanks Les for your continued discussion. I have also studied Moe Norman. His master move as he said, “The vertical drop and the horizontal tug”. He also talked about feeling the club was falling behind him and having no effort which makes me think he is swinging and using angular momentum. When I started working on my swing years ago I was so far over the top I looked like a lumberjack chopping wood. I now have a swing plane with the club shaft sitting on my right forearm coming down and I own that movement. I worked so hard to get there it is why I am resisting the over the top strike move in the Tathata swing. I feel like my brain is saying, “you want me to do what”? I am however using the pressure from two three and four to the top with amazing results. I keep the feeling of four coming down but I allow the club to release and am also having amazing results. I am having a very difficult time with the Tathata strike movement coming down. My brain is fighting the over the top movement and can’t seem to move the lower body back enough or correct. I also loose my timing and rythem so it has a negative impact to my swing. This is why I started my post. I know the Tathata swing works but do I risk trying to change what seems to be working very well for me.

I am really glad I started this thread. I have enjoyed the discussion especially with Les. I just wanted to add some closing thoughts to it. I think golf is unique in you can play with two very different but very effective principles, hit or swing. For hitters you can learn with Tathata martial arts striking principles developed over thousands of years. Swingers can tap into angular momentum a very powerful force of acceleration. Angular momentum in balance with gravity holds the universe together. I think the most important lesson is you have to pick one and don’t try to mix the two. I think a good analogy to make that point would be pushing a kid on a swing. In this example you have to use a swingers motion. You have to be smooth in transition, allow gravity to start the kid down then assist but don’t overpower momentum and push at the bottom, equivalent to releasing the club. If you use a hitters motion you yank the kid off at the top grab the seat hard at the bottom and throw it up and over your shoulder. The hitters example would be if you had a sword and tried to move it like a kid on a swing to strike through something, this would be equally disastrous. I honestly think for the majority of people the hitters method would be best. We first come to golf with a hit instinct and a golf club looks more like a sword than a kids swing.

Hey Norman, I am so glad to hear you were able get some clarity. Like I said in my last post you can’t mix hit and swing mechanics. A lot of the information out there is swingers mechanics, coming from the inside etc. The reality is most people will never find the feel and ability to supress the hit instinct to be a successful swinger. I wish I had this program 20 years ago. I worked so hard not to hit or come over the top my brain will not let me. I am 54 so hard to teach the old dog new tricks deal. I am lucky that I know how and where to release the club, like when to push in my kid on the swing analogy. I am still very excited with the program. There are things with using pressure that help a swingers swing. I am going through the short game routine and already use a body controlled swing for my short game. I just went through the flop shot and bunker routine. I went out today and practiced and was blown away how good it was working with flop and bunker shots. I also love the mental routines. I have read tons of books on the mental game but Bryans teaching is amazing and unlike anything I have ever seen. Best of luck with the program and your golf game.
Jim