Hip Position at Impact

This topic contains 33 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Tathata Staff Tathata Staff 4 years, 3 months ago.

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  • Hip Position at Impact
  • #593009

    Hello,
    I am only on day 5 of the program, but I’ve noticed there has not been discussion about where the body should be at impact. In particular, should my hips be parallel to my target line or should they be starting to face the target?

    Thanks!

    #593312

    Nick – Welcome aboard. You will hear more discussion about this in the days to come but in general I believe the hips will be square for the movements at impact that you’re doing at present. I have seen in some cases a recommendation to practice 5 degrees or so open or closed but those are tailored to the individual based on their state of their current swing.

    #595260

    Nick – While this isn’t the greatest photo, it does give you a feel for where Alex’s hips are at impact when swinging an iron. It’s quite an impressive position of strength, in my opinion.

    alex

    #596245

    David, thanks for the reply. How do you post pictures to the forum? I can’t seem to figure it out.

    #596373

    First you have to load the picture to a file-sharing service (dropbox, flicker, instagram, etc.), copy the URL for the picture, and then paste it into your post. There is a button above for “link” and I used it. However, I suspect just posting the URL into the message post works just as well.

    #596378

    While i am doing Tathata training, i still work with a PGA instructor and a problem has developed with the hips at impact. All the surfing to level drills have resulted in the hips stalling before I get to impact. While the impact position has the chest and hips more open at impact, the Tathata drills like surfing to level have resulted in me mentally slowing my hips momentarily at level which results in the club making contact prior to my body getting open. The release and finish look good just a little late. Wonder how the training will help overcome this muscle memory issue. Now at 24.

    #596449

    Thanks David.

    I’ll give this a go here.

    First, a quick backstory. I come from a baseball background, and while I need to learn more about the golf swing, how the hips work in a baseball swing is similar enough to golf (and hockey; really even a soccer kick as well), that I feel I have a general understanding of how they should work. That was why I was surprised to see that Tathata teaches hips parallel to the target at impact.

    My understanding was that the hips “go” first and then the upper body follows using a coil like effect.

    Using baseball first, look at Barry Bonds at impact.
    http://www3.amherst.edu/sports/current/mantle/tips/bonds.jpg

    Tiger Woods:
    http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/Tiger-ImpactAges.jpg

    Rory McIlroy:
    http://www.golftoday.co.uk/proshop/features/2009/images/rory_mcilroy_swing_sequence_11.jpg

    http://hackertosinglefigures.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/RoryMcIlroyNike1.jpg

    Even when Bryan does a slow sample practice swing, I see his hips past parallel.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/i28wrj9t12o6a4c/Bryan%20at%20Impact2.PNG?dl=0

    And here is a slapshot:
    http://lightherlamp.weebly.com/uploads/1/5/1/1/15118006/1310369_orig.jpg?371

    I am having a hard time seeing how the hips should be parallel to the target given these photos, but am definitely open to understanding this better.

    Nick

    #596497

    Michael – Here’s my two cents. There are a number of ways to hit a golf ball long and straight. Each person has to decide what works best for them. I came to Tathata because I’m still searching and hope this will forever settle things for me so that I never question it again. While I feel that I am getting closer, there are several things within the program that seem inconsistent but I hope to gain clarity in the near future. I sent an email to support, but unlike others, I have not received a reply (interestingly, I sent my email exactly 14 days from this very hour). As for the hips, I’ve seen great players do a lot of different things with the hips. I personally buy into the position of the hips, shoulders, and arms (with respect to alignment at impact) that Bryan teaches.

    If your PGA professional advocates firing the hips earlier than Tathata does, then you’ll likely have to make a choice which one you want to do. Bryan makes a good case about cascading chain of events that must be “managed” if one rotates the lower body too early. Clearly those things can be managed because great players do it all the time. The question, in my mind, is how much time and effort does it require to keep it all under control and is that how I wish to spend my time? My hope is that the Tathata method will be simple, powerful, and result in incredible accuracy…and require far less maintenance.

    #596698

    Nick – I am probably incorrect in suggesting that the hips would be square at impact. Here are snap shots of Alex’s swing before, at, and after impact. It appears to me that the hips have a slight degree of turn to them at impact. Some players have a tendency toward too much rotation while others may exhibit a propensity toward excessive restriction of the hips. I’ll dig up some past posts from Tathata on this subject later.

    Alex
    http://media6000.dropshots.com/photos/1376476/20170220/135536.jpg

    #596778

    I almost forgot about this down-the-line collage. Alex’s hips are certainly a bit open to target line but not a lot. Personally, this position looks strong and safe to me.

    #599069
    Les
    Les

    Michael,

    Just to chime in with my $.02. I’m at day 40 just finishing up speed and strength chapter. In Chapter 3 and 4 you should be learning about how the hips come square with the baseball throw or the surf to level. Then you start with a kick of the feet, shins, knees to get that lead hip back. If you’ve done the pressure point drills then you should feel how first the back hip (right hip for right handers) gets deep and you feel a pinch of the hip flexor and then as you surf to level and begin to kick the legs the lead hip also gets that pinched feel. After than you are doing the belt pull to bring your lead hip left, up, and back. That hip movement will help drive the body, arms, and clubs through impact. Important thing to remember (as I need to myself) is this all starts with the feet arching up to drive the shins and knees left and back and then that feeling of the thighs turning down as you start to do that belt pull move.

    If you see your hips stalling – usually followed by a throw out of the club – then you have stopped the lower body drive through the strike. You have let your arms take over too early and you are slinging the club. You could check your pressures into impact to see that you are at a 5 or 6 and not an 8 or 9.

    #601317

    Thanks David & Les for the responses. I’m doing the pull now, so I see your point how the surf to level with the hip tuck & pull help the hips get around. And yes i was definitely stalling the hips. I also went back and looked at the greatest hand and arm movements of the impact position as well. I guess what i’m trying to get at is how these individual Tathata movements end up changing muscle memory. My PGA instructor believes in specific drills for specific swing faults to change muscle memory. I was wondering out loud how Tathata training does this i.e how it combines all these individual movements into a repeatable golf swing. I felt that some of the movements like snap to level and drawback and punch were causing incorrect muscle memory, in this case the body wanting to snap to level at swing impact.

    #602454

    “I felt that some of the movements like snap to level and drawback and punch were causing incorrect muscle memory, in this case the body wanting to snap to level at swing impact.”

    I’d definitely agree with you on snap-to-level. This is a movement that is performed in the golf swing and I feel like it makes me practice a movement that I do not want to perform when swinging.

    #602468
    Les
    Les

    Michael,

    I came from another program where I spent about 9 months doing drills that are close to the body and hand movement chapters (also pressure and speed) so I am pretty close to the model Bryan is teaching. Basically saying, if you haven’t developed the skill and strength to pressure into the ground and keep a stable clubface through impact it may take a while for your body to accept the new movements. I am a firm believer that you drill movements and over time you slowly adopt them into your swing.

    I am wondering myself if there is a “maintenance” plan available after graduation where you can continue to do routines that help in areas of weakness. For me the move back as we surf to level and having a closed face coming into impact are the areas that are most foreign. And it shows in my ball flight as I am prone to hit pulls with shorter irons and fades with the longer clubs.

    Good luck with your progress. I like this program and will continue to work at it.

    #605500

    Les – You asked about maintenance and also noted the push-back as you surf is causing you club-face problems. I have heard from others that there are two graduate level videos that are used for this exact purpose. I’m on day 51 so I cannot yet verify this but I suspect it is correct.

    As for the glutes, check out the video below, which was posted about three months ago. I think it will clear it up for you. https://www.instagram.com/p/BNRmQsUgbai/?taken-by=alex_moore_tathatagolf&hl=en

    Let me know what you think.

    #606512
    Les
    Les

    Interesting video David and may help to explain a lot. I’ll try working more of that pressure into my routines.

    Thanks for the link.

    #610529

    Three quick comments circling back to my original post.

    1) To me, Alex’s position may look “safe,” but it also looks very weak. I’d be surprised if his drives went any further than 225 yards with those mechanics
    2) I’d love to see a picture of a professional golfer at impact that does not have significant hip rotation. Please post if you see one
    3) I’ll go back to what I learned about hip rotation playing baseball… If I told you to throw a punch, you’d instinctively use your hips and uncoil your upper body for power. You would not keep arm in line with your hips to throw a punch; there is no power there. Stand up and try it for yourself.

    Again, I say this only to try to i) learn more about the motions being taught and ii) share my knowledge that I have acquired after years of studying baseball mechanics, so please do not take this as confrontational, which can often happen in forums.

    Regards,

    Nick

    #611123

    Nick – While I don’t know Alex’s distance, I am quite sure that it is closer to 285 with those mechanics. I saw a post on social media late last year where he placed 2nd in a very competitive field. Alex was a high-level golfer coming into the program and, I suspect, has only gotten better.

    I’ll see if I can find a clip that explains the secret power of the Tathata swing. While I can’t get it to work for us because there are gaps in my understanding and, in my opinion, the drills to teach it properly to high handicappers, the swing does apparently work for those who can figure it out.

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