Lie angle during impact

[Elvis]

Hi Tathata Team,

I have a query I’m hoping you could please advise on. I’ve always felt that I’m too short in height for the lie angle of my clubs. When I take my stance at address the toe of the club is noticeably cocked up in the air and I always have feeling I need to manipulate my stance somehow to flatten this out. I read many conflicting things about lie angle when I google’ed so I never really got clarity on it.

I left the issue alone after reading somewhere that “its ok that the toe of the club is a bit up at address because during impact the position of the hands are higher than at address and this essentially flattens out the lie angle while swinging”.
I sort of found comfort in this statement because my hands were actually always consistently higher when swinging through impact than they are at address (seen it by recording my swings on the range in the past).

My question is:
Since the Tathata swing instructs to get down and back in the glutes and use pressure to press down on the grip during impact as if breaking wood, wouldn’t this make the toe of my club cock up in the air even more during impact seeing that the position of my hands will be lower than at address? Any advice here will be appreciated.

The few times I’ve been on the range ball-striking has been inconsistent, a few flush straight shots but more shanks, fat hits, a bit too big pulls and weak pushes. No real genuine hooks or slices though. And I’ve only been using the 7 iron.
I’ve just finished chapter 4 but I know I don’t have all the Tathata moves fully down pact yet so this is obviously contributing to the inconsistent ball striking, I just wonder if its possible that some of this inconsistency is caused by a less than optimal angle of the club head lie upon impact.

Thanks kindly,
Elvis

[David]

Good question, Elvis. I’m signing up to receive replies.

[Tathata Staff]

Hi Elvis,

Thank you for reaching out and asking this question about lie angle and how the training may play a part in this as well. Click the link below to hear and see Bryan’s response to your question.

Student Q & A: Lie Angle of Golf Equipment

Thank you Elvis, enjoy!

[Elvis]

Hi Bryan,

Thank you for the comprehensive video response! This definitely helps more than a little! I’m thrilled to announce that after seeing a video response of yours to a different question from another student a week ago where you also demonstrated how to firm up the dantian during the swing, I practiced this at home and went to the range the following day, the results were astounding, absolutely much better ball striking. No shanks at all and maybe 2 fat’ish’ shots out of the entire 1hr session. Thank you for reconfirming the dantian advice now in this video. I’ll be working on this going forward to move away from my hands riding high.

After listening to your advice on verifying if the lie of my clubs are ok, I think I can conclude that the clubs are too upright for my body dimensions. Still would prefer to have your opinion on this, so please see the data below:

– My height with golf shoes on: 5.7 feet
– Distance between crease of wrist and floor while standing upright: 2.7 feet
– Clubs: 2008 TaylorMade Tour Burner irons
– Shaft: Standard TM stock True Temper 105g, regular Flex, Steel
– At address with 7 iron on a hard flat surface, I can slide a postcard under the club head all the way very close to the heel.
– When hitting a ball off flat hard wood floor, the tape on the club shows the contact point to be between the centre and heel of club consistently.

I have pictures of this but not sure how to send them.

I’ll await your response before considering any adjustments. In the meanwhile as you mentioned I’ll continue practising the correct swing.

Many thanks,
Elvis

[Elvis]

Hi Bryan and Staff,

Just wanted to following with you and report back on this topic now as I have completed the 3rd piece of advice given in Bryan’s video response i.e. ‘visit my local pro to have him look at the club angles and hands position during impact’.

I went to the fitter at my resident Golfclub. I Explained my lie angle concerns and explained that I was following the Tathata program. He did his measurements while giving me some address and swing tips and concluded that:

1. My hands ride higher by about 8 degrees during impact as compared to at address.

2. The club lie angle is ok for me because the hands are supposed to naturally ride higher during impact compensating for the toe up address position (he had a theory about natural wrist movement to justify this statement that’s not compatible with what Tathata teaches)

3. If I adjusted my stance to be more upright the lie angle would be a bit flatter at address and less off-putting.

I basically concluded for myself that his theories conflict too much with what I’m learning on Tathata. So I’ve decided that after I feel sufficiently trained on Tathata and have no more mechanics from my old swing still lingering around, I’ll search for a Tathata compatible expert and get measured again (I live in the Netherlands).

One thing from the Fitter’s advice I did try which seems to be working well is adopting the more upright stance. Although it makes me look way more upright than Bryan, Alex and Lauren look at address, it does put the toe of the club closer to flat and is indeed less off-putting and doesn’t seem to stop me being completely centred and balanced.

Thanks for your help so far, my swing is rapidly and drastically improving better than ever before and making perfect sense to me. I’m hitting the 7 iron in the dead of winter 15 meters further than i used to hit it on a hot summer day.

Thanks & Take care,
Elvis